Good grief, I can’t believe it’s been so long since I’ve written a post about the debt thing. So, let’s do a little run down, shall we? You all know how I love to type out lists…let the list begin!
1. Yes, we are still in debt.
2. Debt sucks big donkey wads.
3. Being the head track coach was really bad for our dining budget and gas budget.
4. Budgets are a necessary evil.
5. Sometimes I like to ignore the budget.
5.5 Ignoring the budget causes my husband to sigh a lot in my direction and ask questions like, “Do you know we have a budget?”
6. Having a job this year let us loosen our belts a bit.
7. Having a job made me so busy that I had no time to think about spending money on things that I really love.
8. I really love working cameras, comfortable dining room chairs and in general fixing up the farmhouse.
9. Now, that school is out for the summer, I suddenly have the urge to spend heaping mounds of cash on working cameras, comfortable dining room chairs and in general fixing up the farmhouse.
10. Good thing I have severe anxiety when it comes to purchasing cameras and furniture and lumber supplies.
11. I sort of, kind of gave up my envelope system.
12. I found that if I have cash I do this crazy thing……I spend it.
13. I use shopping cards that I purchase from my children’s school to buy our groceries. So, it’s still like I have a cash amount, without the cash in my pocket.
14. Coupons are still an awesome thing to save a ton of money, but they are a lot of work.
15. Cashiers do NOT understand coupons.
16. A lot of cashiers think I’m trying to cheat the store out of money by using coupons.
17. Sometimes I feel like an overbearing-penny pinching-uptight- money monger when I have to explain how to enter the correct amount of the buy one get one free details on the coupon to the cashier.
18. There’s a few things I’d like to do with those coupons that include: start a fire, make a good soup and fill the giant hole in the cashiers ear lobe. But, I’ll keep using them, when I’m organized enough to use them.
19. Have I mentioned that really I think coupons SUCK giant wads of time and energy out of me? Ugh.
20. Debt sucks.
So, let’s hear how you all are doing? Are you paying your bills? Getting out of the hole? Saving up cash for the next great thing or disaster? Frustrated with coupons? Let’s hear it.
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You inspire me, April.
I really need to use the Dang Ramsey method. I need to come up with me a really cool beans envelope system…
Btw… I mentioned you in my blog last week.
Thanks for coming by. I may or may not have squealed and jumped up and down. Here’s the link.
http://musingsofamanicmama.blogspot.com/2010/06/its-that-time-of-year-again.html
Dave’s money envelope things sends me into a tailspin every time. I maintain it for a short period of time until a purchase that crosses over into 2 or more envelopes throws me. I do have a budget system that we use but I’d be embarrassed to show anyone – it works for me and my brain.
My tips? Keep checkbook balanced and write down debit card purchases right there on the spot, even if people in line behind you have to wait.
I hate coupons too. Bleh.
Amen, it sucks bad! (I’m prefacing my next comment letting you know that while I don’t comment terribly often I get your blog in my reader and have done so for well over a year and love your blog and I don’t work for the site I’m sharing but just have been using it for 6 months and really don’t want to sound like spam) I know the envelope system works but it is overly complicated so a friend had been using mvelopes for about two years and loved it, making lots of progress debt wise so we finally tried it. The only thing I HATE about it is that it costs money. You can pay monthly/quarterly/annually/etc.
(members can buy gift certificates for other people at steep discounts though I have no idea why a person would do that without knowing the other person REALLY wanted it…otherwise it seems like it would be wasted, one such deal right now is getting a years service for the cost of a quarter, which is WAY cheaper than we got it for, if you’re interested)
But back to why it works. It does the envelope system but is linked automatically with your debit/credit accounts so you don’t have to keep track of pennies and have envelopes. What I loved the most though was you didn’t just budget and assign transactions. Rather you budget or plan, then you FUND the envelopes and finally you assign transactions. That way you can tell when you’re over budget or if the envelope has been funded that month. They have amazing support and helps online, plus free live chat 24 hours a day except for a 48 hour period over the weekend. It works.
We had 10k in debt on a 45k income after taxes and thought it would take us a year to pay off at the earliest. With mvelopes.com we were able to get further ahead than we imagined possible and paid it all off in FIVE months. We were able to track things so effortlessly that we kept getting further and further ahead. I would totally recommend this with all my heart!!!
We paid things just over a month ago and now we’re in that frustrating now out of debt phase but where everything we ignored for 6 months is needing replacement/purchases…you know shoes, lawn mowers, car repairs. But next month we should be caught up and actually working on the 6 months expenses. That will likely take 1.5 years to accrue but we’ll be glad when its done!
Good luck!
Currently, our only debt is our house and a couple of piddly medical bills (I hate insurance deductibles!!!!!!!), that I will pay off next payday.
I CANNOT stick to a written budget. I have tried, and tried, but I always over spend. And don’t start me on the envelope system. I cannot work my brain around it.
Biggest problem to date – inability to save.
I really admire your discipline. We are getting there, too, but not exercising enough discipline. If we were, I think we would be further ahead, but we are both thinking about how nice it would be to spend that money we see coming on some new furniture for the basement or this little thing here and that little thing there. We just blew over $50 on stoopid summer league basketball tournament admission and food out while we were gone. With a little planning, we could have packed our mid morning snack and lunch and saved $30. It makes me want to punch myself in the face, but at the same time that burger was mighty good.
Right now we are looking at a lot of things we need and/or want and trying to budget for them: more dental work for me, possibly braces for Na, helping Jo with college expenses, and family room furniture. We owe on the car and the house and a just a little on CareCredit for the crown I just had done. We’re no longer piling up debt on the credit cards. We have started a savings account for the taxes (self employed thing) and another for an emergency fund. There’s not much in either savings account right now, but we just paid property taxes and the quarterly taxes that are due this month, the bills are paid, and our needs are met. We’re making progress and learning to be patient, and we are thankful:o)
I feel like we’re spending money like water and it makes me all heeby-jeeby and anxious… A baby due in four weeks does that to a family, I guess…
Regular reader here who loves Dave Ramsey, but hates being organized. I just did my first official budget in 5 months. I did great last year, but this year… uh… not so much….
So, I am out of debt, but have just used my emergency fund to pay for gutters. I need to start setting aside $ for repairs and a new car. Don’t even talk to me about retirement. *sigh*
I need to get a handle on it.
Oh, no envelopes for this girl. I just take out a certain amount of cash for the week and that’s what I get. When its gone I’m pretty much out of luck. :}
I’m struggling with coupons, also. I’m on a big kick to kick out processed foods from this family’s kitchen, but most coupons and good deals are for processed foods. It’s super time consuming and then I can’t get the cashier to understand I’m not trying to trick her.
I always love your lists! And I have a love hate relationship with Damn Ramsey. We did really well after we closed on the house – I think it was the sticker shock. But now summer is here and all the landscaping we decided not to do last year needs to be done. *sigh* While we’re not going into debt to do it, we’re not saving money or paying much extra on our mortgage like we should be. And we’re both dying for a REAL vacation. Oh – and I just bought myself a dSLR after busting my beloved point and shoot camera. Considering I’ve been drooling over it for 3 years and saving up for it, I shouldn’t feel guilty, but yet I do. I even bought the mid-level instead of the bestest one I had planned on. (And I was planning to get it for my birthday in a month. So what’s the guilt deal?)
Money – such a funny thing. At least we’re doing well putting money away for retirement and the kids college funds.
Love your updates.
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coupons? what are those? I’ve tried, really I have, I just don’t know how to use them well…
I have read Dave’s articles in the paper. I’m pretty sure that makes me an expert! We created our own envelope system last August after we realized our savings was tanking and our finances were hemorrhaging, and we had no idea what was happening. 5 months into the cash system and it became clear that we were truly not wasting very much money. I was disappointed to learn that as it meant I had to work more to get our car paid off and get our bleeding stopped. It has really helped, and God gave us a wonderful nanny who is sixteen, but she keeps my kids at my house, has them do chores and leaves it picked up every day! That can’t be beat!
I used to clip coupons faithfully. These days, most of the coupons I get are for name brands I don’t buy, or foods we don’t purchase (overly processed foods, mostly), or items I don’t use anyhow. It just isn’t worth the effort looking for the very few coupons I might possibly use.
I have blown through so much money this weekend that I don’t dare answer that question.
Wads and wads of money. (It was fun!)
Well I have camera anxiety. I have a love/hate relationship with coupons. I am in debt. I always wanted to do the envelope system but somehow couldn’t get it together. :/
We were doing really well until a year ago when I got sick. Six hospitalizations, more procedures than I can keep count of, two major surgeries, massive complications, tube feedings, home nursing, etc… Which all would have been fine and dandy – everything covered by insurance – except for that STUPIDHEAD, idiotic, snot nosed, butthead, did I say idiotic yet? resident that came breezing through my room ONCE, didn’t talk to me, didn’t examine me, didn’t talk to any of my attendings – and miscoded my chart – for something my insurance DOESN’T cover – and voila! we now have $1.5 million in medical bills and a monumental fight with the insurance company – who has been barraged by my doctors, explaining the mistake, but really don’t give a rip anyway. Frankly, it makes me kinda wanna cry.
It has also necessitated that I have to go back to work – not just kinda, but so that we can have things like groceries. Feeding 3 teenagers is not cheap, but we’ve done it well for years – relying heavily on what we grow ourselves and put up. But after all of the medical bills that are now of an age where places are demanding hundreds of dollars or else… well – I just try not to cry on the way to work. I hate leaving my home – I would gladly work from home – I hate not being there for my kids.
Did I mention I have a bad attitude about money?
Coupons are no good to me, I live in a one horse… I mean one grocery store town. I do find one or two great sale items a week so that’s what I buy, but I buy enough for 6 or 8 months. So I have a head of lettuce, a bunch of bananas and cart full of toilet paper. It makes heads turn. Sometimes they limit per customer. Example recently they had canned veg 8/$2! Twenty five cents a can but I could only get 8. My husband and I visited the register 16 times that day but I won’t have to go again for a long time. This week it’s 4oz salmon fillets, thankfully we only have to hit the line 5 times to meet our salmon needs for the next year. It’s humiliating but you know what they say, “the family that’s humiliated together…… uh I don’t know but it has to be a bonding experience.
We’re in Financial Peach University right now! (As a side note, my four year old daughter calls Dave “Damn Ramsey” too – she has never heard us refer to him that way – she managed to come up with that all on her own!) Anyway, the envelope system is a good idea in theory, but you have to have the willpower to NOT fund one envelope from other envelopes. I don’t buy clothes for my family every month, so instead of saving the money each month so that when I do go shopping, I have the clothing budget funded, I steal from the clothing budget so we can go out to eat. Not very helpful. I do like the system, and would recommend FPU to anyone trying to work down their debt – it is still very hard. My husband is self employed and I am a stay at home mom so finances can get tricky. Not to mention the fact that we also have a farm which is also a business we have to budget for – buying and selling animals, vet & meds, feed, etc. gets very tricky. We’re still figuring it out, but hopefully we will get there soon. We renovated the interior of our farmhouse & replaced windows before we had kids, so at least that is done, but it’s been 7 years now and we haven’t even touched the awful insulbrick exterior. My mom asks all the time when we’re going to finish the house and we just don’t know. It sucks, but as Dave says, I’m willing to “Live like no one else so I can live like no one else!” Hopefully we’ll be able to finish the exterior and possibly look at putting on an addition in about five years – I figure that’s about when my oldest who is six now will start feeling embarrassed by how our house looks on the outside. Plus, by that time I don’t know if I’ll be able to stand sharing one bathroom with my husband, three sons and daughter!
As for the coupons – I agree with previous posters that in my area at least, coupons are for foods that are processed, junk foods, etc. or they are ridiculous – like $1 off if you buy two – but the item costs over $3 each anyway. I never use coupons – I just shop at Aldis! I love that store – only one brand of each item, product turn over is fast (no sour milk) and they have great produce! I also shop at Sams Club too – but Aldis is where I get practically everything.
Thanks for sharing!
My hubby and I bit the bullet a year ago and started living with my parents. It’s been more than difficult at times, but we’re sticking to it. We’re mixing Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard’s ideas to fit us. Basically, we have an emergency savings and focus on paying one debt at a time. We don’t do the snowball so much as putting everything except basic living expenses towards that one debt. We think we’ve paid off between $10-15,000 in the last year. We’ve hit a bump in the road with my husband losing his job, but we’re doing well. We’re quite a ways from needing the emergency fund. Paying debt off has brought us so much more security and that can’t be measured in dollars. God has been a great support through all of this. When I’m worried I put my trust in Him and I know He’ll do what is right for us. Before big purchases and decisions we pray and I’m sure He’s helped us with those decisions too. Life is good with God in our lives. He’s ALWAYS there for us and that’s a great feeling! Good luck to everyone else on their debt battles.
My husband found Dave awhile back. He has great methods and strategies. We need to actually start the Total Money Makeover…then maybe I can get the house that I want and go back to school as well. It’s all a struggle, but I know we can do it. We just have to get started.
It’s nice to find someone else out there that is honest and open about the struggles and joys of everyday life. I look forward to reading more of your blog. Thanks! 
Strange… When the kids were home and I worked alot, (I work on call and still do) I made grocery lists, cut coupons and shopped once a week, basing my menus on whatever was on sale and what was in the freezer that week. Kids are gone and seems like I go to the store every other day. Hmmm…
I have to say, I don’t use coupons much anymore unless it’s for coffee or something like that. Most of the coupons I used, were good for stuff the kids liked, and I wouldn’t buy them without one.
Ok, coupons. LOVE THEM. But only because of http://www.grocerygame.com. Thanks to Grocery Game I am spending at least 40% less on groceries. You gotta have a system for using coupons to make them worthwhile!
Debt. Ugh. I found your blog and your *inspiring* attitude toward debt last year. Expenses have increased, while income has not. We would be in serious trouble if it werent for all the grocery savings.
Since hubby works full time and is making pretty much the max in his industry, and I work part time and am self employed, I accept that I will have to make more money in order for us to get ahead. Rats.
using coupons is great… if you have the time to clip, organize, and plan with the store flyers… until you get to the register and the cashier does #16. seriously, you’d think that in this day and age and economy that stores would do a better job of educating their employees! i haven’t used coupons in months because i got tired of having to tell cashiers how to do their job. i kind miss the rush of getting something for nothing though… maybe i should start again!
I may have just come to terms with the fact that my husband and I will always live paycheck to paycheck and be in debt
I have spent many a sleepless night worrying over finances and we never seem to get ahead. It drives me batty.
A note on your #12 — I NEVER, almost EVER NEVER EVER have cash on me unless I am taking $ TO THE BANK to deposit. People ask ‘Why don’t you ever have cash on you’? Simple, because then I’d be buying something from your kids fundraiser that I DO NOT NEED!
I don’t know how people get out of debt once they already have kids. I did it back in my early 20s by just giving myself an allowance and, if it was gone, it was gone – I walked instead of riding the bus, ate rice 3 meals a day, whatever, til next payday.
But you can’t do that with a family.
If the Dave Ramsey thing & the envelope thing don’t work for you, you might want to try the inner child thing, it’s a little girlier and more whimsical – Pam Young’s Get Out of Debt book. You can listen to the intro here: http://www.thegetoutofdebtbook.org/ and your public library is likely to have a copy.
We have done Damn Ramsey and we just finished Crown Financial. Began a part-time job in February. Have spent over $5,000 in sports related expenses since January 1 of this year. Do not have a college fund for my 13 year old son or my 7 year old son. Ugh! Use coupons but hate them also! I know that it will get better but am waiting on that time. Love your blog!
I actually found your blog due to googling “Dave Ramsey envelope system”. We stopped using credit cards almost 2 years ago and the envelope system and the budget has been the only way we’ve been successful in that. Hubby and I never worked together with money until we started using the envelopes and doing the budget. We do a budget every 2 weeks. It’s actually been easy for us and works SSOOOO much better than the system we had before (which was no system). I’m also an avid coupon user. Just tonight we saved over $10 on our groceries which isn’t bad for us. I only have to feed 2 people but every penny helps!
Coupons are a pain but, I stash what I save with the coupons. If I had $20. in coupons, that $ is stashed for chairs, floors & cameras! It suprising how quickly it adds up….Put those kids to work! Mark the coupons you want and have one of them cut them out. I love child labor!
Coupons can be a pain, but I hate shopping without them now. I saved $30 on my last grocery bill; that will almost fill up my van ‘s gas tank! I stick to using only coupons for things that I would normally buy. A lot of coupons are for processed junk, but I have found coupons for staples, produce, toiletries, cleaning supplies etc – those bring me the best value. The trick is matching coupons to a sale – I stock up on things that I know we use on a regular basis – TP, peanut butter, olive oil. The cashiers are a pain sometimes, but now they see me coming and if they know that I will ask for a manager or – if they decline the coupon – I will not buy the item. Once you get to know the cashiers they are pretty nice about it.
I believe that training has gone WAY down – most retail does not WANT their employees to know too much; they are hoping you will back down and not fight them – just buy it.
You hit on a ton of good points particularly for working parents with kids in activities rotation. It takes tons of work, and sometimes is impossible, to minimize gas outlay and food expense when you are rushing from work to a game, a meet, or a rehearsal. Sandwiches in the cooler with frozen water bottles are our mainstay. 16 hours of work and chauffering a day leaves little time for many of hte creative and frugal solutions that so many offer. I’m not saying you can’t do it, I’m saying there are days when you’re so exhausted that Boston Market makes total sense. We’re a two parents working family with no family in the state. We both do side jobs on top of the 10 hour work day and we have two kids who are active. It’s a challenge.
We did great through the winter but we have fallen off the wagon starting in April! Grrrrrrr! Debt does suck!
I was doing pretty well (I was even planning some nice redecorating) until last month when an unexpectedly bill of $1000 hit me. That used up my emergency fund and more. Boo.
Debt is a downer for sure…I am working to reduce my debt and I feel like I’ve made good progress this year. I do the envelop thing for major purchases as a way to save…then give the envelope to my sister for safe keeping. Cash I can see, is cash I will spend! At least I’ve learned that about myself
I finally got out of debt this past November, so FINALLY have gotten past Baby Step 2. It just took 4 years to do it.
Baby Step 3 is a bit harder to acheive.
I gave up my envelope system for a while and have found that I really need it.
I ended up spending more money than I should have on clothes, home-care, and suppplies for work. So—I’ll be getting back to strict enveloping this July.
I don’t do coupons, unless it is for something that I really do buy all of the time.
For the most part, I buy so much of my food from the farmer’s market nowadays that coupons don’t work well for me.
My neice however makes out like a bandit with coupons. She can buy a whole months worth of food for a family of 5 for $200.00. Amazing.
Good luck with your saving.
I know its tough—-but you will do it. It does happen!
I’m just proud every time I have a meal plan and shop with a list and remember the damn envelope and remember the damn reusable grocery bags. AHHH! Coupons are so far down on the list that I don’t even feel guilty about not using them anymore.
As for the debt, we’re basically out except the house. BUT, the husband won’t get rid of that last credit card. And it gets used sometimes, and I know the number by heart… I think I need Damn Ramsey to come to my house and yell at me for a while. That might scare me straight.
I finally got out of debt this past November, so FINALLY have gotten past Baby Step 2. It just took 4 years to do it.
Baby Step 3 is a bit harder to acheive.
I gave up my envelope system for a while and have found that I really need it.
I ended up spending more money than I should have on clothes, home-care, and suppplies for work. So—I’ll be getting back to strict enveloping this July.
I don’t do coupons, unless it is for something that I really do buy all of the time.
For the most part, I buy so much of my food from the farmer’s market nowadays that coupons don’t work well for me.
My neice however makes out like a bandit with coupons. She can buy a whole months worth of food for a family of 5 for $200.00. Amazing.
Good luck with your saving.
I know its tough—-but you will do it. It does happen!
I found that coupons were just a big waste of time, and as a previous commenter mentioned, they’re mostly for processed foods, anyway, and we’ve changed our diet so spending that time just doesn’t pay off for me.
Even if you care to spend the time you have to examine carefully if the item with the coupon will still be higher-priced than a store-brand without a coupon.
I guess we live in a thrifty area, because I can’t imagine a cashier being confused or put out by coupons.
More about grocery shopping: http://www.livecheap.com/food/groceries/364-5-sneaky-ways-grocery-stores-take-you-for-more-money
Ack! I meant to post this link as I got to livecheap via lifehacker!
http://lifehacker.com/5560625/keep-money-in-your-pocket-by-avoiding-these-grocery-store-bait-and-switches
We’re finally doing well. Hubby’s in the construction field, which hasn’t been the greatest in the last few years, but he’s managed to stay busy.
The commercial building we built almost 2 years ago is finally rented! We can loosen our belts, too.
My husband & I have a “secret code.” I’ll ask him if we have enough money to buy a movie, & if he says yes, I know things are OK
I have the Lumix camera too. I love it! Got it at Costco with a $50 coupon.
I wish I could say we are debt free…..but……one child getting married August 6th, one just graduated and is off to college, one starting pre-school……private pre-school for children with autism……very expensive……may have to sell a kidney…….but……..we are happy……I also need a camera, maybe it is time to dust off our Dave Ramsey kit
My husband did up an Excel spreadsheet and tracks every penny of our money. This works best if he sits down to pay bills the day the paycheck comes in (before we start spending it.) We stick pretty closely to our budget for the most part. Occasionally we pinch a little from the gas category. He usually over-budgets that one because you never know when it will go sky-high again. I do better on the groceries/household items if I estimate my list first. It makes me sick how much inflation there is on everything–compared with skimpy raises and no more bonuses for hard working employees in this stinkin’ economy. Doesn’t seem like it will ever let up. I am getting to be the queen of frugal. It stresses me out sometimes to have to watch every dollar so closely. Wish I had more money for fun stuff! I’d buy more chickens! And some goats too!
This month a got a credit card statement that said ZERO on it!!! I want to frame it (or at least hang that sucker on the fridge for a day)!!! I worked for almost a year to get that ZERO!!! I have another 6-9 months to go on paying the other two cards off, but I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I just wish I could remember what I am ‘paying’ for now! It just goes to show if it goes on the plasic money you most likely didn’t need it at the time and won’t remember what it was.
I tried using cash only, but my problem with that is I never remember to enter it into my budget after I spend it. If I use my debt card I can ‘see’ what I purchased and it makes tracking it much easier.
Keep up the good work!!
We’re self employed and we use m-velopes on line. Works great. Then my husband said, “We should use real envelopes and real cash. We’ll do EVEN BETTER!!” Then I started loosing cash. “Hey, whats the cash for?” ‘I think it’s my tithe….could be my grocery money…from last week. I dont remember..we seem to have food…. By the way, here’s a check.’ “Hey! Why is this check stashed in your gianormous purse? I’ve been looking for that. That’s the third check this month!!!” Loosing checks because I carried them in my purse to cash and not deposit. And that takes longer to do, so it never got done. After two months, my man said, “Your back on mvelopes.” I must say,it works for me.
On the bright side. We should be out of debt in one year. We’ve been working like a Ramsey for 4 years now.
I have given up coupons for buying store brands from stores like Aldi’s and Save-a-Lot. I like the products and I think I’m saving more money. Coupons stress me out and I hate dealing with cashiers.
Debt sucks. My husband has put our family on a budget so we can get out of debt. I seriously want to get out of debt but not enough to stop buying shoes. I bought a cute little pair yesterday, snuck them into the house, hid them under the chair in our bedroom and wore them to work today. He won’t ask for my receipts until Friday. There will be much sighing and eye rolling at our house Friday evening. Ah well. It’s shoes!
ok…First one needs to have money in order to mange it! But I have drasticly changed my thinking. The most important things I WANT and NEED are rent and my unilitites paind each and every month. I have recieved assistance with the utilities and phone and I am currently selling off all of my usless crap that I have been hauling around from move to move. You know the stuff you keep but never use. The grocery store I use gives me a student discount of 5% and I do use those nasty coupons!! They also give me a 5 cents off per reusable bag each time I use them. So that is usually about 35 cents more I save and I am not filling up the land fill with grocery bags.
I think it is interesting in my case that saving money and saving the environment is going hand in hand. I don’t own a car, I take the bus every where. But I car pool with a friend to go grocery shopping.
We are living paycheck to paycheck and (God help us) trying to have another baby. I would love to use a written budget. Like actually use it. I can’t seem to create one that works for us! Please, if you have advice to offer, I would love to have it! It all seems to work out on paper, but not in real life. How do you get yours to work?
Ugh! Money is such a hot button issue. I’m a saver and my husband is a spender. He’s lucky I love him or I would have held a pillow over his face long ago and gone on to live my tightwad life alone. I live in fear of facing a major disaster and not having resources. He lives in fear of …of…nothing. I keep telling him the grasshopper/ant story and how we must save today to enjoy the future…but he’s having so much fun being a grasshopper that it doesn’t register in his tiny grasshopper brain. *sigh*